172 lines
7.9 KiB
Plaintext
172 lines
7.9 KiB
Plaintext
From spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net Thu Aug 29 11:08:12 2002
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Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message
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Subject: RE: [SAtalk] O.T. Habeus -- Why?
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MIME-Version: 1.0
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Thread-Topic: [SAtalk] O.T. Habeus -- Why?
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Thread-Index: AcJO7qte24+xcf7ESLmrGiiIRFMj4wAGlwww
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From: "Dan Kohn" <dan@dankohn.com>
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To: <spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net>
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X-Originalarrivaltime: 29 Aug 2002 03:09:49.0231 (UTC) FILETIME=[890B3BF0:01C24F09]
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X-Habeas-Swe-1: winter into spring
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X-Habeas-Swe-2: brightly anticipated
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X-Habeas-Swe-3: like Habeas SWE (tm)
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X-Habeas-Swe-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm)
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X-Habeas-Swe-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this
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X-Habeas-Swe-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas
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X-Habeas-Swe-7: warrant mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant
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X-Habeas-Swe-8: Message (HCM) and not spam. Please report use of this
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X-Habeas-Swe-9: mark in spam to <http://www.habeas.com/report/>.
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Sender: spamassassin-talk-admin@example.sourceforge.net
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List-Id: Talk about SpamAssassin <spamassassin-talk.example.sourceforge.net>
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List-Archive: <http://www.geocrawler.com/redir-sf.php3?list=spamassassin-talk>
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X-Original-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 20:09:49 -0700
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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 20:09:49 -0700
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X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-27.1 required=7.0
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tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,HABEAS_SWE,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,
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QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03
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version=2.40-cvs
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X-Spam-Level:
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Guys, the Habeas Infringers List (HIL) exists explicitly to deal with
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spammers while we're getting judgments against them and especially in
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other countries, where those judgments are harder to get.
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Please note that nobody has ever had an incentive before to go after
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regular spammers. Yes, some attorneys general have prosecuted blatant
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pyramid schemes, and ISPs have won some theft of service suits, but the
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vast majority of spammers go forward with out any legal hassles. So, I
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can't understand how Daniel can assert that you can't track spammers
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down when it's never really been tried. We can subpoena the records of
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the business they spammed on behalf of. We can subpoena the records of
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the ISP that provided them service, and of the credit card they used for
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the whack-a-mole accounts. We can use private investigators. Yes,
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these people are often lowlifes (chickenboners). But, they're not
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secret agents. They're just trying to make a buck, and Habeas' whole
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business is about finding them and putting them out of business
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Habeas has the incentive to pursue spammers (that use our warrant mark)
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in a way that no one ever has had before. Given that our whole business
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plan relies on Habeas becoming synonymous with "not spam", I can't
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understand why you would assume ahead of time that we will be
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unsuccessful, plan for that failure, and in so doing, remove the
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potential of success, which is anti-spam filters like SA acting on the
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Habeas warrant mark.
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Daniel, it's easy enough for you to change the Habeas scores yourself on
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your installation. If Habeas fails to live up to its promise to only
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license the warrant mark to non-spammers and to place all violators on
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the HIL, then I have no doubt that Justin and Craig will quickly remove
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us from the next release. But, you're trying to kill Habeas before it
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has a chance to show any promise.
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At the end of the day, SpamAssassin is like the Club, in that it
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encourages thieves (spammers) to just go after the next car (those
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without SA) rather than yours. Habeas can play the role of LoJack (the
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transmitter), in enabling the apprehension of thieves so that they don't
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steal any more cars. But only if we're given a chance to succeed.
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- dan
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--
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Dan Kohn <mailto:dan@dankohn.com>
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<http://www.dankohn.com/> <tel:+1-650-327-2600>
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-----Original Message-----
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From: Daniel Quinlan [mailto:quinlan@pathname.com]
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Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 16:38
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To: Matthew Cline
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Cc: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
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Subject: Re: [SAtalk] O.T. Habeus -- Why?
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Matthew Cline <matt@nightrealms.com> writes:
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> There must be *some* way of tracking a spammer down, since they are
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> planning on making money from the spam. What a court would consider
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> evidence of being the spammer is another question.
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Haha!!!
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Just a few notes:
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- It will be difficult to find, prosecute, and win money from someone
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in various non-friendly countries where spam originates (China is a
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good example) even if they do officially "respect" copyright law.
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- Law suits take time. Between now and conclusion of the first court
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case, we could have years of spam in our mail boxes!
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- Contact information can change: phone numbers, PO boxes, stolen
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cell phones, temporary email addresses, etc.
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- Spammers do not always remember to include contact information! I
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don't understand it either, but nobody said they were bright. Also,
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some spam is non-commercial or sent by a third-party (for example,
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"pump and dump" stock scams), so contact information is not strictly
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required for the spammer to get their way.
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Dan
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-------------------------------------------------------
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_______________________________________________
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Spamassassin-talk mailing list
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Spamassassin-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/spamassassin-talk
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-------------------------------------------------------
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This sf.net email is sponsored by: Jabber - The world's fastest growing
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_______________________________________________
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Spamassassin-talk mailing list
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Spamassassin-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/spamassassin-talk
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