137 lines
5.9 KiB
Plaintext
137 lines
5.9 KiB
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From fork-admin@xent.com Tue Oct 1 10:41:40 2002
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Mon, 30 Sep 2002 18:29:31 -0400
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From: bitbitch@magnesium.net
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Message-Id: <16680971951.20020930182931@magnesium.net>
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To: "Bill Stoddard" <bill@wstoddard.com>
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Cc: Fork@xent.com
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Subject: Re[6]: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
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In-Reply-To: <JHEPKCEMGPKFFDHHDDKDAEKEFIAA.bill@wstoddard.com>
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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 18:29:31 -0400
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Hello Bill,
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Monday, September 30, 2002, 5:46:11 PM, you wrote:
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>> MF> I don't think free speech is a license to speak directly at
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>> and be in the
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>> MF> physical presence of any particular individual of your
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>> choosing - especially
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>> MF> when that individual is busy doing something else and isn't
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>> interested.
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BS> Yep. I agree 100%
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>>
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>> Sure. And that goes back to my second argument -- Cohen. THey can
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>> walk away. NObody compells them to stand there, I'll agree fully.
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>> But we still have a Constitutional right to speak out against
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>> policies, actions and grievances.
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>>
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>> Again. If you want it another way, lets change the Constitution.
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BS> Huh? Are you saying that whoever has the loudest voice gets to be heard?
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BS> Shouting down a public speaker could be considered a form of censorship. If
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BS> shouting down public speakers is 'protected' it is only a matter of time
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BS> before the people doing the shouting have their tactic used against
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BS> them -every single time they open their mouth-. The tactic is stupid and
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BS> non-productive and if generally used, will only result in chaos. The tactic
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BS> is just stupid ego-bation at best, unless the goal is to generate chaos.
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BS> And humans whose goals and actions in life are to create chaos in society
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BS> should be locked up (provided you can accurately identify them, which is not
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BS> really possible anyway, but hey, this is my rant :-). IMHO.
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BS> Bill
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No offense or anything, but there's a difference between holding a
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sign that doesn't agree with Bush and screaming at him.
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My sole point, as far as the 1st Amendment goes is that there is more
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to this game than just being an angry, liberal youth. (Which is the
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gross culmination of everyone's argument sofar) The screaming isn't
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the most effective method around. I don't believe I argued that it
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was. But screaming is happening because the means to communicate to
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the representatives involved are diminishing, at least as far as the
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people doing the screaming are concerned. For the record, I don't
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support the screamers in organized conferences (Such as the Colin
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Powell shout-down that was mentioned earlier). I don't think that
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this is what the 1st Amendment was implying. These folks -do- have a
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right to be heard, and I think they have a right to be heard by the
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folks they elected in the first place.
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My point, (my only point) was really more concerned with the cases
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such as Mr. Nell. He wasn't engaged (at least from the limited facts
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we have) in a shoutout, but rather in a difference of opinion. He
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has a right to possess this opinion and make it known to the
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representatives that are elected. A sign is not a shout-out.
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I think I may have missed (or not accurately addressed) the original
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thread switch that took this example and mixed in the screaming
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dissenters to the mix. I was mostly responding with my miffedness in
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having broad-brush strokes applied to a group without examining the
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policy reasons that might have contributed to it. IN this case, the
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screaming parties are fed up with getting corralled miles away from
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the folks they need to speak with. They're resorting to creative,
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offensive and constitutionally challengable means, but its not simply
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due to the fact that they're 20 and have lost all decorum. The 'My
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generation never did this ' is all BS. THere's more to this story,
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we just dont' know it all.
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I hope this clarifies my position. For the quick rehash:
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Screaming != Free speech on all cases.
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Dissent = Free speech, provided you follow what has been laid down by
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the Supremes.
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K?
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--
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Best regards,
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bitbitch mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net
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