148 lines
6.1 KiB
Plaintext
148 lines
6.1 KiB
Plaintext
From fork-admin@xent.com Thu Sep 5 11:31:06 2002
|
|
Return-Path: <fork-admin@xent.com>
|
|
Delivered-To: yyyy@localhost.example.com
|
|
Received: from localhost (jalapeno [127.0.0.1])
|
|
by jmason.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C39616F7D
|
|
for <jm@localhost>; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 11:28:32 +0100 (IST)
|
|
Received: from jalapeno [127.0.0.1]
|
|
by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0)
|
|
for jm@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 05 Sep 2002 11:28:32 +0100 (IST)
|
|
Received: from xent.com ([64.161.22.236]) by dogma.slashnull.org
|
|
(8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g85302Z01844 for <jm@jmason.org>;
|
|
Thu, 5 Sep 2002 04:00:03 +0100
|
|
Received: from lair.xent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xent.com (Postfix)
|
|
with ESMTP id 797F429420D; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 19:57:03 -0700 (PDT)
|
|
Delivered-To: fork@example.com
|
|
Received: from mis-dns.mv.timesten.com (host209.timesten.com
|
|
[63.75.22.209]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 226EF2940AA for
|
|
<fork@xent.com>; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 19:56:05 -0700 (PDT)
|
|
Received: from mis-exchange.mv.timesten.com (mis-exchange.mv.timesten.com
|
|
[10.10.10.8]) by mis-dns.mv.timesten.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id
|
|
g852waA32721 for <fork@xent.com>; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 19:58:36 -0700
|
|
Received: by mis-exchange.mv.timesten.com with Internet Mail Service
|
|
(5.5.2653.19) id <SJF7CJ6C>; Wed, 4 Sep 2002 19:58:36 -0700
|
|
Message-Id: <80CE2C46294CD61198BA00508BADCA830FD384@mis-exchange.mv.timesten.com>
|
|
From: Sherry Listgarten <sherry@timesten.com>
|
|
To: "'fork@example.com'" <fork@example.com>
|
|
Subject: RE: Java is for kiddies
|
|
MIME-Version: 1.0
|
|
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
|
|
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
|
|
Sender: fork-admin@xent.com
|
|
Errors-To: fork-admin@xent.com
|
|
X-Beenthere: fork@example.com
|
|
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11
|
|
Precedence: bulk
|
|
List-Help: <mailto:fork-request@xent.com?subject=help>
|
|
List-Post: <mailto:fork@example.com>
|
|
List-Subscribe: <http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork>, <mailto:fork-request@xent.com?subject=subscribe>
|
|
List-Id: Friends of Rohit Khare <fork.xent.com>
|
|
List-Unsubscribe: <http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork>,
|
|
<mailto:fork-request@xent.com?subject=unsubscribe>
|
|
List-Archive: <http://xent.com/pipermail/fork/>
|
|
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 19:58:36 -0700
|
|
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-7.3 required=7.0
|
|
tests=EXCHANGE_SERVER,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,
|
|
SPAM_PHRASE_03_05
|
|
version=2.50-cvs
|
|
X-Spam-Level:
|
|
|
|
<snip>
|
|
Misc rants about finding jobs, java vs C, what makes a good programmer, etc.
|
|
</snip>
|
|
|
|
Okay, hmm, I thought twice about this, but what the hey, jobs are hard to
|
|
come by. There's a company hiring in Mountain View, looking for a few good
|
|
hackers, no Java, no GUI, not even C++ -- just C and Linux and networking
|
|
and good old stuff like that. They just raised a wad of money and they're
|
|
looking for a few "really good programmers", says the CTO. I know him --
|
|
very smart guy. Drives too fast, though, for what that's worth.
|
|
|
|
Joe Bob says "check it out". I'd be happy to pass on your resume, or you can
|
|
send it straight to them. Probably won't matter if I pass it on, since I
|
|
don't know you guys anyway...
|
|
|
|
http://www.netli.com
|
|
|
|
-- Sherry.
|
|
|
|
> -----Original Message-----
|
|
> From: Joseph S. Barrera III [mailto:joe@barrera.org]
|
|
> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 8:58 AM
|
|
> To: Adam L. Beberg
|
|
> Cc: fork@example.com
|
|
> Subject: Re: Java is for kiddies
|
|
>
|
|
>
|
|
> Adam L. Beberg wrote:
|
|
> >>> Forwarding me stuff from a list is hardly handing me a job.
|
|
> >>
|
|
> >> I was talking about the open reqs at Kana (the company I
|
|
> work for).
|
|
> >> Oh, but programming in Java is beneath you.
|
|
> >
|
|
> > Nope just lacking years and years of it. For some silly
|
|
> reason people
|
|
> > always want things to be reliable, fast, and
|
|
> cross-platform so all my
|
|
> > employers have forced me to code in C :)
|
|
>
|
|
> C is more reliable than Java??
|
|
>
|
|
> As for cross-platform, C exists on more platforms, but a Java program
|
|
> is much easier to move from one platform to another. So I'm not sure
|
|
> what you mean.
|
|
>
|
|
> I'm not trying to fight a language war, but I'm puzzled by the depth
|
|
> of your anti-Java hatred.
|
|
>
|
|
> > I know lots of high school
|
|
> > kiddies with plenty of Java tho, not having to teach people about
|
|
> > pointers or optimization or anything shaves years off the
|
|
> coder boot
|
|
> > time. I'll send them your way when they graduate.
|
|
>
|
|
> Pointers. So a language has to have pointers to be real? And
|
|
> references
|
|
> don't count, I gather. What's so great about pointers? Why do you
|
|
> miss them? If your doing embedded stuff, fine, yes, you need the
|
|
> performance and control over memory that C provides. Probably.
|
|
> But if your implementing tier N-1 of a tier N system, and pounding
|
|
> against a database, then Java is OFTEN a very reasonable choice.
|
|
> Especially if you want that system to run without leaking memory.
|
|
>
|
|
> Optimization. Who says you can't optimize Java? I can and have,
|
|
> and there are good tools that allow you to do it (I use OptimizeIt).
|
|
> But usually I find myself optimizing (reducing) database accesses
|
|
> instead. I sped one part of the system up by a factor of ten by
|
|
> grouping more operations into fewer transactions.
|
|
>
|
|
> But this is beside the point. If you have decent C++ experience, and
|
|
> have poked around in Java, you should be able to convince most
|
|
> employers that you can be trusted writing Java. That's what I did --
|
|
> I mean, I joined Kana from Microsoft, and I didn't exactly write
|
|
> a lot of Java code at Microsoft.
|
|
>
|
|
> > I'm not displeased you're trying to help, just frustrated that
|
|
> > employers can demand such rediculous combinations of skills with
|
|
> > insane years of experience.
|
|
>
|
|
> I don't think I've ever interviewed at a place where I actually
|
|
> met all the prerequisites. Do you just give up when you don't?
|
|
>
|
|
> > Interview tommorow with Kodak, doing I have no idea what as the
|
|
> > recruiter isnt even sure, but cross your fingers it wont require 10
|
|
> > years of Java and 5 years of Windows/IA-64's device driver
|
|
> experience
|
|
> > (both common requirements).
|
|
>
|
|
> I wish you best of luck, and I apologies for being a bitch.
|
|
> But God DAMN, you piss me off sometimes. My son occasionally
|
|
> displays your "can't-do" attitude and I do my damnest to
|
|
> get him to reverse course.
|
|
>
|
|
> - Joe
|
|
>
|
|
>
|
|
|