From fork-admin@xent.com Fri Aug 23 11:08:20 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: yyyy@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93D8944160 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:06:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for jm@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:06:44 +0100 (IST) Received: from xent.com ([64.161.22.236]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MIPTZ19588 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 19:25:29 +0100 Received: from lair.xent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94BC22940D4; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:23:08 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: fork@example.com Received: from localhost.localdomain (pm7-32.sba1.netlojix.net [207.71.222.128]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C7AD294099 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:22:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dave@localhost) by maltesecat (8.8.7/8.8.7a) id LAA21283; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:11:58 -0700 Message-Id: <200208221811.LAA21283@maltesecat> To: fork@example.com Subject: RE: The Curse of India's Socialism In-Reply-To: Message from fork-request@xent.com of "Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:30:03 PDT." <20020821183003.25673.41476.Mailman@lair.xent.com> From: Dave Long Sender: fork-admin@xent.com Errors-To: fork-admin@xent.com X-Beenthere: fork@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Friends of Rohit Khare List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:11:57 -0700 X-Pyzor: Reported 0 times. X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-7.1 required=7.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01 version=2.40-cvs X-Spam-Level: > You have multiple generations of > peasants/squatters that cultivate and live on the lands almost as a > human parts of the property package. When I'd read that "getting legal title can take 20 years", when I believe that 1 year ought to be more than sufficient, (and helped by the Cairo reference) I'd assumed that we were talking about the urban poor. If I see people living in mansions, or even in suburban subdivisions, I assume they didn't have too much trouble with their titles. If I see people living in shanties and haphazard alleyways, I tend to assume their parcels weren't exactly recorded on the government maps, or paid for with a bank loan, especially when nearby vacant lots have shotgun wielding men presumably intent on keeping them "development" free. Now, it may be that "Manhattanites' view of America" to say that outside of Metro Manila, Davao, and maybe another city or two (Cebu?), everything else (literally) is the boondocks. But going on that very broad assumption, I guess I'm describing the flip side of Mr. Roger's experience: the paisanos (who leave behind those who remain on a patron's rural land) move to Manila, and (the second assumption) squat in shantytowns there, at least until they can line up a middle-class job. So, going on two large assumptions, I can come up with a scenario under which title would take 20 years: a shantytown arises somewhere in the midst of a section (or whatever the Spanish used to divvy up the land) and it takes decades of arguing to put together a package which somehow can both compensate the owner and record lots for the inhabitants. Just transferring title to an existing lot, between parties who have money, ought not to be a problem. The obvious solution, at least to us barking farting chihuahuas on FoRK, is to "introduce market mechanisms". It is left as an exercise to come up with one which works when many of the agents (are perceived to) have negligible NPV. -Dave > [land reform] meant that all the agricultural producers had > to plant crops all the time (profitable or not) ... What happened to more highly-capitalized land? Putting in trees instead of crops sounds like it might sidestep that. > Mr. Long, I think you'd particularly enjoy the De Soto work. On the "to find" list. Any chance of an explanation of that "Bell Jar" in the meantime? http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork