From fork-admin@xent.com Tue Sep 24 15:52:24 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: yyyy@localhost.example.com Received: from localhost (jalapeno [127.0.0.1]) by jmason.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67B3816F03 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:52:23 +0100 (IST) Received: from jalapeno [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for jm@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:52:23 +0100 (IST) Received: from xent.com ([64.161.22.236]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8OCKlC03038 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 13:20:47 +0100 Received: from lair.xent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 353C8294256; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 05:15:09 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: fork@example.com Received: from homer.perfectpresence.com (unknown [209.123.207.194]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E451F29409A for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 05:14:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from adsl-157-233-109.jax.bellsouth.net ([66.157.233.109] helo=regina) by homer.perfectpresence.com with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 17tofv-0003ID-00 for fork@xent.com; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:20:23 -0400 From: "Geege Schuman" To: "FoRK" Subject: RE: liberal defnitions Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <001b01c2637e$643836f0$0200a8c0@JMHALL> Importance: Normal X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Antiabuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-Antiabuse: Primary Hostname - homer.perfectpresence.com X-Antiabuse: Original Domain - xent.com X-Antiabuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [0 0] X-Antiabuse: Sender Address Domain - barrera.org Sender: fork-admin@xent.com Errors-To: fork-admin@xent.com X-Beenthere: fork@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Friends of Rohit Khare List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:17:14 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,IN_REP_TO,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.50-cvs X-Spam-Level: from slate's "today's papers": The New York Times and Los Angeles Times both lead with word that a federal judge ruled yesterday that the nation's largest national gas pipeline company, El Paso, illegally withheld gas from the market during California's energy squeeze in 2000-01. The judge concluded that El Paso left 21 percent of its capacity in the state off-line, thus driving up the price of gas and helping to induce rolling blackouts. and this is the product of overregulation? -----Original Message----- From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of John Hall Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 11:57 PM To: FoRK Subject: liberal defnitions Depends on how much over spending vs. how much (and what type) over regulation. The biggest problem with over regulation is the costs can be invisible. It also has the ability to single out particular people, while over spending spreads the damage more evenly. Rent control would be an example of a regulation solution that is in general worse than spending tons of money on public housing. As for the definition of a liberal being someone who seeks to impose both, I find no fault in that definition whatsoever. The opinion that EITHER we are spending too much OR we have too much regulation is pretty much anathema to liberal politics. Finally, those who argue that there are private replacements for much government regulation are not saying that a state of nature (no private replacements, no government regulation) is better than government regulation itself. And in my experience people who label themselves 'Green' (which does not include everyone who loves trees and thinks smokestacks are ugly) is a watermelon. > -----Original Message----- > From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of Geege > Schuman > > funny. i read it as green = red, as in accounting, as in fiscally > irresponsible. which do you think is the worse indictment - > overregulation > or overspending? there are many (dickheads) who buy into the > neo-conservative media's (fox's) definiton of "liberal" as "one who seeks > to > impose both."