From fork-admin@xent.com Tue Sep 17 11:30:05 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: yyyy@localhost.example.com Received: from localhost (jalapeno [127.0.0.1]) by jmason.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9F7216F03 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:30:03 +0100 (IST) Received: from jalapeno [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for jm@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:30:03 +0100 (IST) Received: from xent.com ([64.161.22.236]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8H3BaC24508 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 04:11:37 +0100 Received: from lair.xent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52B5E2940E7; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:08:05 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: fork@example.com Received: from mail.evergo.net (unknown [206.191.151.2]) by xent.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6BE8F2940E2 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:07:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 5491 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2002 03:11:11 -0000 Received: from dsl.206.191.151.102.evergo.net (HELO JMHALL) (206.191.151.102) by mail.evergo.net with SMTP; 17 Sep 2002 03:11:11 -0000 Reply-To: From: "John Hall" To: "'Stephen D. Williams'" Cc: , Subject: RE: Slaughter in the Name of God Message-Id: <002401c25df7$dfb547a0$0200a8c0@JMHALL> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <3D869694.1060906@lig.net> Importance: Normal Sender: fork-admin@xent.com Errors-To: fork-admin@xent.com X-Beenthere: fork@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Friends of Rohit Khare List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:11:10 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by dogma.slashnull.org id g8H3BaC24508 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.2 required=7.0 tests=AWL,INVALID_MSGID,IN_REP_TO,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01 version=2.50-cvs X-Spam-Level: > From: Stephen D. Williams [mailto:sdw@lig.net] > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 7:42 PM > >1. Which religion and how it is currently being expressed matters. > > > A) Which religion is it that can claim no foul actions in its past? > Certainly not Christianity, Islam, etc. Hence the qualifier 'current'. > B) "How it is currently being expressed" amounts to a tacit > acknowledgement that the sophistication of the society involved and > people's self-limiting reasonableness are important to avoid primitive > expression. This leads to the point that religion and less > sophisticated societies are a dangerous mix. It also tends to invoke > the image of extremes that might occur without diligent maintenance of > society. The tacit acknowledgement and self-limiting you speak of is not a given or a function of 'sophistication' but is primarily a feature of (current) Western Civilization. Of course, 'sophisticated' and 'Western Civilization' are essentially equivalent IMHO. But it need not be so. > D) The Northern Ireland Protestant vs. Catholic feud, recently more or > less concluded, is not completely unlike this kind of friction generated > by splitting society too much along religious lines. One Post article > pointed out that the problem basically stemmed from the vertical > integration of areas along religious lines all the way to schools, > government, political party, etc. (Of course both cases have a heritage > of British conquest, but who doesn't?) And sometimes the religious component is a façade for an equally dangerous ethnic affiliation. Hindu extremism isn't about the Hindu religious theology as far as I can see. It is a peg to hang an ethnic identity and identity politics on. Muslim extremism appears to have a far greater connection to theology. > 'Northern Ireland is a British province of green valleys and > cloud-covered hills whose 1.6 million people are politically and > religiously divided. About 54 percent of the population is Protestant, > and most Protestants are unionists who want the province to remain part > of Britain. The Roman Catholic minority is predominantly republican, or > nationalist; they want to merge with the Republic of Ireland to the south. Yep, all because the Scots ate oats and starved their Irish out long ago, while the English preferred wheat and that doesn't grow so well in Ireland. That and the introduction of potatoes saved the Irish as Irish. > That's fine, as it would be an inappropriate concentration. It would be > difficult to address the issues raised here in a clean way. I'd be > happy with an acknowledgement that the connection is there. Oh, I think we are in a war with wide aspects of the Muslim religion. I know it is there, but it just might not be appropriate to admit it publicly. > >3. US Leadership remains reflexively multi-cultural. > > > This is ok to a point, as long as it doesn't shy away from logical, > objective analysis of when a society could be seriously improved in > certain ways. I didn't say this was a *good* thing. With the exception of ethnic restaurants, I can generally be counted on to oppose anything labeled 'multi-cultural'. > >I didn't say burning the train was a good thing. I said I understood it > >wasn't a spontaneous attack on people who had done no wrong. > > > > True, although I don't think you were as clear originally. :-) I'm sure I wasn't.